Rosie Gill-Moss: 0:02

Hello, and a very festive welcome back to Widowed AF. You're here with me, Rosie Gilmoss, and joining me is my alive husband.

Jonathan Gill-Moss: 0:11

Welcome. Hi everybody.

Rosie Gill-Moss: 0:13

Do you want to say your name as well?

Jonathan Gill-Moss: 0:14

Oh yeah, Jonathan Gilmoss. It's been a while, everybody.

Rosie Gill-Moss: 0:17

Yeah, we've not done one of these for a while, and actually one of the things on the agenda, which is at the bottom, so obviously I'll do it first, was to discuss the idea that we maybe bring these back as a bit more frequently, because people did seem to like them. So, let us know if you'd like to hear more of the bearded man. And also what you want to hear us talk about. Yeah, what you want to hear about. Yeah, yeah, yeah, we are, we are open. Today is going to be the final episode of season two, not the final episode, don't worry, the final episode of season two, and that means that we've been going for two years. We've been putting out episodes consistently for two years. It still amazes me that this is my, my job, my passion. And that so many people are still continuing to respond to it. You can probably see me going a bit, if you're watching, a bit shy. And I say, oh, I've got a Santa hat on. You might want to have a little look on YouTube, because it's very fetching. If you pop off to YouTube and, um And you want to do it within the first 20 minutes of this record, because it's never going to last. Um, So we actually halved, no, we quartered our output this year. Last year we put out a, um, an interview, a conversation, and we put out, most weeks we put out a sort of chatty episode as well. So this year we scaled it right back and Primarily because of the kind of toll it was taking, it's quite, um, It can be quite emotionally draining, I guess, for want of a better word. I feel quite tired after I do them. And also, there are many other things going on in our lives, um, And it just made sense. And I was really worried that we'd see a massive decline in numbers because obviously the more you put out the more, more people are going to do more downloads. And actually what we were really amazed to see is we had the same amount of downloads for a quarter of the output. So that tells me that more people are listening. That tells me that more people are engaging. And I just wanted to take the opportunity to say thank you, because this is, you know, I know I've said this before, but it was a dream and you made it happen because it's all very well. Me sitting here with a Santa hat on talking at a screen, but if you didn't listen, it would really be ridiculous. So thank you. Now, It's unavoidable that we don't talk about the big C. Not the first few words you might think of, but the Christmas. Christmas, yeah. And this is my seventh Christmas without Ben. It's your seventh without Sarah, actually, as well, isn't it? Yeah, yeah. So Let's get it into the end. Yeah, um Actually, I have a hair in my mouth. Probably from the Santa hat. Um And actually, maybe we should talk about that a bit, because Yeah, sure. I've just realised I'm stuck with my headphones on, and we're in the same room. We literally just tested to see if we could do it without our headphones, because I didn't want to disturb the hat. Um, and actually, again, this is completely off on a tangent, but I've got you here, so I might as well ask you. Um, you, Sarah died in November. Yep. Her funeral was at the beginning of December. Yep. And then you rolled into Christmas. Yes. So that's just you and Holly. Standing in the middle of the hurricane. What, what did you do? Well, Christmas Day, um, so I had Sarah's mum, so Sarah's mum was still living with me. Um, cause we were still in the same house. Um, so her sister came round with her, her newborn baby, uh, little Tino. Um, and Cos, and his mum came round, and I cooked everybody Christmas dinner. Absolute machine. Um, and everyone says, Oh, how could you do it? But I needed to be busy, and I think people wouldn't understand. The word that's popped into my head is avoidance. Running as fast as you can, away from everything that's just happened. Um, But, uh, it was just, it's horrible and it's a feeling I've not really got rid of in Christmases going forward. Yeah, we, I think Christmas, no matter when they die, it's tricky. The first year for us, um, I didn't know what to do because we really loved Christmas as a family and I know you and Sarah did as well. And I didn't want to have Christmas at home. It felt, you know, that empty chair would have felt far too prominent, I guess. I didn't really want to go to Ben's family, which Because it, those, I had such treasured memories of the massive moss family Christmases. And I didn't really know what to do, and I didn't have a lot of money, and I also didn't have a lot of sense. So I, probably after a skinful of wine, booked a week in Cape Verde for Christmas, and my parents, thank God, came with us, because I don't know, as I could have done it on my own, and they say we had sort of this, it was quite a good set up, actually, it was like a two bedroom little apartment, so, cause Tabby and I still have bottles and things, um, and we had an alright time, you know, it, it was alright, it was completely different, we'd never been away for Christmas as a family before, so it was totally different. It wasn't a happy christmas it wasn't um, and kind of to really compound it and be careful if you've got little ears listening to this because i am going to talk about the man in red my eldest son i've talked a lot or i've mentioned several times about this white lie i told when the police came to the door which was in a panic i said the dog is about the dog poor dog now because my head lied at a very you know Cataclysmic time for, again, for want of a better word. This stuck with Monty and it was one of the things that, therapy and things we've been able to unpick, but, long story short, he asked me outright if Father Christmas existed. I'm saying that really quietly, there's no kids in the room here. And I said to him, no. Because, I couldn't lie to him, but my only other option I feel actually really sad. I'm not was to shatter a little boy's Christmas So he was quite withdrawn on christmas day. And um But I will say something and that is very quickly he became part of the magic and Our other son he asked, you know the question and he sort of he didn't know he hasn't asked directly has he he's skirting around it and I You I found an analogy that out of my head and I'm going to share it because I said to him, well, the thing about Christmas that makes it so special is magic, right? It's this magic. Yeah. And if you think about it, there is nothing more magic than parents, grandparents, you know, carers all across the globe, you know, give or take, providing this magic for children. On the same night. Yeah. And the fact that it's this. wonderful conspiracy of magic and joy that in itself is the Christmas magic and I haven't answered that one of course they've all got stockings and yes I am taking the holiday I'll get to that in a minute but I felt that There is a magic still there, and Monty was able to find it again. We were all able to find it again, but it is not the same. No, it's not the same. We haven't done, we have had Christmas at home, but we've done things like gone off and swum in the sea in the morning, and done completely crackers stuff, and we've, we've been away, we've, we've gone to a hotel in the UK. We've done a lot, we have done different things. Um, and I guess there is an element of running from it, and. Perhaps, perhaps next year we have Christmas at home and we, you know, we, we kind of sit with it a bit, but at the same time, we deliberately didn't go away this summer because we thought, why not have some winter sun? And we've coincided it with Christmas. Yeah. I think, um, I've completely forgot what I was going to say. Oh, welcome to my world. Just going back to Monty about, um, how he's, he's come up with this and he helps make the magic now. So like, he'll get involved with putting out the presents or doing the tree. He puts an elf hat on. I don't know whether he will this year, but he has. Um, so he gets involved in, in making the magic for the little ones now. Um, which is really, really good to see. And I hope that continues because, I mean, Tabby's seven, she's not, she, she ain't stupid, you know, she's, she's got suspicions, but there's enough will to believe there. So, that's, that's kind of their, their duty now, to their sister, to do what, you know, we've done for them, and, but it, it is a tricky conversation, and it did, you know, Make that first Christmas even harder. And for those of you out there who are approaching your first Christmas, there's nothing that John and I can say to you to tell you that it will be fine, that you're going to have a A very merry Christmas and a happy new year because I can't tell you that. I can tell you that there might be some glimmers of joy in it. You know, you, if you have children and you manage to pull it together, just, you don't have to do a huge amount. And I did ask if any of you had any messages, if you wanted to share anything with me about Christmas. And I've had a message on Instagram from a lovely sounding lady, Amy Louise Brunt. Now I'm going to read it. I can't, I haven't managed to memorize it. And the thing that I particularly like it is the, the sentence advent calendars can fuck off. I don't need a countdown. I think there's a range of Christmas cards in our future. Um, but her husband died when their little boy was, I'm just making sure I get this right. So, so Amy has just gone past a year without Max. And so he died on the 7th of December and their little boy had just turned three months old, which means that he's roughly a year old now, right? A little year and a bit. Um, One of the things Amy has written is that this is a big reminder of all the should haves and the should dos and it makes her feel like a bad mum because she can't bring herself to do Christmas fun activities. And she's just ended by saying, maybe next year I can try again. Exactly. And I felt so much empathy for Amy in this message because you do feel like you're failing. Um, You know, I did the bloody elf before Ben died and stuff like that. I haven't, I just haven't got it in me anymore. And we have Christmas trees and decorations and, you know, we're going, I'm taking Tabitha to see Santa. But that first year, I didn't want Christmas to exist at all. No, I didn't either. I wanted to disappear. Yeah, well I did, you know, that's why I booked the holiday. And I thought, oh, because I booked the holiday, I don't have to get involved in this Christmas shit. And I wasn't even going to have a tree, and it was actually the kids wanted a tree. And to compound things, my car was in the garage, so I had to walk up to the garden centre near my house, get this bloody tree, and then carry it home like fucking Santa Claus himself. Ha ha. But I did it, and I think it wasn't done wholeheartedly, there was a lot of mulled wine involved, but we, it was enough for them, and I'm thinking, you little boy won't even remember this Christmas, like, next year, you're gonna feel so much stronger next year, you're gonna feel so much more capable, and, don't, please, anybody giving yourself a hard time because you're not making the bloody Christmas magic, like you're seeing on Instagram and stuff, please don't, because, it's not real, and, and most of those people's husbands haven't died, and And if they have, that's their way of finding joy. So, we all do it in different ways, you know, but please, Christmas is a wonderful, magical time, but it's also a fucking lot. And it comes back to this, allowing yourself to do what you need to do, and not feeling shame for it. So, in the same way that we say, if you need to cry, have a cry. We think, if you need to laugh, laugh. If you need to do, nothing. I'm going to give you a tip as well. Do nothing. Christmas wrapping, right? If you've got kids, stocking presents. Some absolute monsters don't wrap the stocking presents, right? Social services should be involved. Um, some go to great lengths, as my friend who I had a chat with yesterday does, and you know, she gets very cross if the Christmas presents get creased and she might re wrap them. I find myself in the middle. If you buy a different colored tissue paper for each child, you can scrunch the stocking presents. You'll know who's got what. Doesn't take lots of time and energy, but they still have to unwrap them. You're welcome. You are available for more Move aside kirstie No craft no craft, although I did make um baubles with tabby you great crayons again instagram Famous and you put them into a clear plastic bauble and then you put a hair dryer on and it sort of melts them I'm doing lots of gestures here, which is absolutely useless if you're listening, but come over to youtube You Yeah, you can watch it on YouTube, you can see it. I would like to be wearing a Christmas jumper but I'm quite frankly too hot. So I've got my son's Christmas t shirt on, don't tell him. One thing about Christmas is, is very much around the children. And I apologise to those of you listening without the, I'm just going to talk a little bit about this, this kind of particular element of being a widow. Because if they're at school, you've got a lot of, A, you've got a lot to remember. And if there's only one of you, then that makes it really challenging. But also you've got things like nativity, carol service, uh, christingles, there's, there's an absolute myriad of things that are all going to make you cry. Because I challenge any bereaved parent to go and watch their child do a performance of any kind and not cry. And we went to Tabby's just for, well she's just started year two but they don't do nativity from year three. So we went and watched her. Last Nativity, which also happens to be the last Nativity until I guess we have grandchildren. So, it brought all sorts of emotions to the fore. You know, things about, you know, Ben never saw her do a Nativity play. He, we never even saw her take a step in. And it, you can't help but think about the things that you are missing. And, um, When it comes to the kids, there is a lot of masking up and, you know, carrying on regardless. And family plays a really important part in this. But for some people, their ex in laws, their former in laws, what's the I don't know what the correct term is here. It does vary in terms. We'll just call them outlaws. Outlaws. And they have distanced themselves from both the widow and the children. And at times like this, it can make you feel very lonely. And We all need a place to belong. And sometimes that comes from building our own communities, and having friends around for Christmas. But I also understand that asking for help, saying that you're lonely, saying that you would like some support, especially actually if you are completely on your own without the kids. That, that's, that's really hard. Now, I'm going to play you a clip now. Um, this one is from the lovely Orla. Orla's episode hasn't aired yet, but she has recorded with me. And she has the most gorgeous Irish brogue. So have a little listen to Orla. And she's going to talk a little bit about what she's planning to do this Christmas with her son.

Orla Blackburn: 14:55

Christmas changes when your person has died. It's full of what should be, but can't. It's so hard for the first few years as you try and figure out how to do it now. Even surrounded by people, you can feel so alone. My son and I unintentionally started a new tradition. We sometimes go to the gorgeous Christmassy garden centre where we used to go as a family to get our tree each year. Sadly, we only got to do that three times. And my son chooses one of their very fancy baubles which we then put on the tree for his daddy. We're still finding our new normal for this time of year. Christmas was once massive, full of family, But that's changed a lot, as so much does change. Relationships change. What feels right changes. You're just trying to look for your new normal. I've yet to hit that sweet spot. But this year, I feel like I want it small, cozy, just my son and I. What feels right for you this year?

Rosie Gill-Moss: 16:12

One sort of quite common theme, um, is people trying to find a way to remember the person they love at Christmas. It's like ornaments. And I think that is one of the loveliest and simplest ways that you can incorporate them into your Christmas. It is, yeah. And somebody had made for me a little Christmas decoration. It's got a tiny little photo of, um, it's actually the only photo of the five of us, really, because not many exist. And I always pop that on the Christmas tree. And That somehow makes me feel like we're involving Ben and we've got one for Sarah that says Mommy on one side and Sarah on the other and just that, that gesture of putting them on the tree is one way to make them feel more involved. Now, one of, um, our listeners, Sue Bushnell, she also sent me a lovely message via Instagram. And her husband died just in May, so this is her first Christmas without him. And, you know, while she says, she says here, I love Christmas, the lights, the food, the games, and spending time with family and friends. I feel so lucky so much of the time that I'm well supported. However, I don't want to impose on my daughters and their families, and I need some quiet time to reflect. My three young granddaughters, however, keep the joy. And, I get that. I get that feeling of not wanting to be an imposition. Although, I suspect, Sue, that they wouldn't find you an imposition at all. But I also get this idea of wanting to be alone. Yes. Because Christmas is, it's, well it's noisy and it's joyful and it's chaotic and sometimes even being in that environment is just too much. But one thing, and we bonded over this, is that one of her granddaughters found Grandpa's flying pig angel in the box of decorations. Now, flying pigs are a bit of a thing in my house as well, the school our eldest attends. The school motto is a flying pig because the founders were told they had as much chance of the school succeeding as a pig's flying. And so I also have a flying pig on my tree, but that's, that's a kind of an example of keeping their, you know, the grandchildren, that flying pig, that's grandpa's flying pig. You know, that, that, and the fact that she says here that they were belly laughing, you know, that it can come in the most mysterious of ways. Yeah, it can. I think on the first, that first Christmas we, we'd all finished, um, we'd all finished dinner and we were in the front room, um, and I was playing on, I got one of those, old xbox arcade machines with all the old games on and me and holly were playing a game and then she started playing with uh nanam and i do have a video of it but um you know alana's laid on the sofa and she just looks done i mean she's just given she's quite a difficult birth with cj No, no, her sister died. And then literally four days after that, her sister died. And then, and then, Rolling through that, so she was out cold, but, You can just see, Lynn, just, she's got this controller, And she's just swinging her body, left and right, But not moving the controller on the screen, So it's not doing anything. Um, and Holly's just laughing her head off. And it's just these little pockets of laughter, but everything around you just felt cold and, and um, yeah, that was probably my first experience of like those, that duality of feelings. And it is important to look for those. I think, I don't know whether Donna Ashworth coined the phrase glimmers, but it's something I've heard her talk about. And it's these, you have to look for the little glimmers because those are the things that will keep you going. And it might be, I actually did it. I mean, it, it. It kind of gives me the ick a bit now, but it was important to me at the time and for the first, I don't know, maybe six months, I documented one single moment of joy every single day, because I felt that if I could do that, and by doing it publicly, it kind of pushed me to do it. I would realize that there was something in every single day that was bringing me a small bit of joy. And it might have been the baby smiling, it might have been, you know, the cat not shitting in the house. You know, it might have been something really small, but there is a little bit to be found. Um, mine was Yeah. That's how you ended up in Ibiza on a lunch salad day. Yeah. Be warned people, be warned. That's how I ended up on the, throwing up out of a cab. At 5pm? At 5pm in the afternoon, I'm in Ibiza. Because, yeah. It's not big and it's not clever. No. Although, actually the first Christmas we had together, we, um, we did get quite drunk. We were both drinking back then and we had all this, my favourite thing about Christmas is the leftovers. The sandwich that night. And we got so drunk, we fell asleep, left all the food out, we had a cat and a dog so, you know, that he couldn't ever touch it again. And, um, yeah, that, I, I think, was that maybe our last drink in Christmas? No, it can't have been. Anyway, I digress. Um, I do want to play you a clip now. Um, this is from Laura Malin, who is one of my fetishes. She's a season one guest and a really A good friend of the show and a really good friend of mine. We've become friends and I value her input hugely. Now, Laura and her partner, Chris, they've been together for I think it's three years now and they're very happy. I've met Chris twice, lovely chap. And they both have children. They're both widows. And There are challenges. I think particularly when the children are older, I often say the main advantage for us for blending our family was that the kids were pretty young. Yeah. I think when you've got teenagers, young adults involved, um, so this message, it's, it's not, she doesn't mean it, it's meant to show you what it can be like because they're in a relationship. And yet, obviously, she still loves her first husband, Adam, and she posted something on their anniversary. And I will let her, her, her speak now, but essentially it caused some friction in the blended family. And I guess that's something else we have to consider. And I know that divorced and separated families have, have this to contend with as well. And it's, but it's the idea of having to limit the affection that you publicly display for your partner. Dead husband in case you upset upset your alive partner's family And I think that's a bit of a sticky one. We'll play it and then we'll come back in on it

Laura Malin: 22:24

Rosie, I just thought I'd, get in touch because I've just seen your Instagram post and, I really wanted to chat about something to do with, remembering loved ones and trying to navigate around the busy exciting time and be happy, as well as miss them. and it's just been Chris's big 60th birthday, which was a huge success. It was a surprise and he had no idea. It was really good. I've kind of just gone down in a dip and, feeling deflated, like there was such a big high and now it's the low I just saw a memory, on Facebook and it was of Adam. and it just made me really sad and I really miss him. at the moment, I suppose it's just More intense, but anyway, I wanted to be able to share it I shared it with my two daughters and privately it was lovely, I usually just go straight to Facebook and do a little memory share and a little nod to Adam. a few months ago, I had put on, a Facebook post about my wedding anniversary and it was particularly heartfelt on that occasion. some of Chris's children saw that on Facebook and, Didn't interpret it well at all and quite incorrectly They obviously thought it was insulting to their dad And I would never want to do that Especially not on social media like that that would never happen. I don't feel like that anyway There was nothing Connected with Chris in that post it was literally just about what I've been feeling and how The anniversary comes around really quickly I've been feeling a little bit rock bottom but you can never go to rock bottom really because you have lots of other people who need you and Adam was a big part of me not reaching that, bottom of the pit. so they said something to Chris, the eldest one did, and Chris spoke to me about it. it was obviously playing on his mind, and I showed him the post, he said he was okay, and I thought we were at that stage where things were okay. I don't know whether it's Chris trying to make out that it's not hurting him, but actually it is I wasn't aware of that, but I thought I need to speak to the kids all together and just say, look, this is how I'm feeling. This is how I do it. And if you don't like it, unfriend me or unfollow me, this is never about making your dad feel bad or, trying to insult him in any way please don't take it that wrong way one of the kids has unfriended me because of this reason and now I feel myself like Now I don't feel like I can share my memories and that I miss my husband especially this time of year I don't know how to get over that nearly eight years Chris and I've been together and this is still an issue I thought the chat would have cleared the air and now I feel like biting my tongue about expressing how I feel and, it makes me sad. I hope you're all well and lots of love. Okay, bye.

Rosie Gill-Moss: 25:33

So, firstly, thank you, Laura, because I, I assume you're going to be listening. Thank you for sending me that, because it really is an issue that a lot of us are going to have to contend with. And that issue is around public declarations of love for the person that's died. And I will never stop. It might not necessarily be on the big events, it usually is, and I realize why we do it. Sharing a little bit of your pain, a little bit of your history, because lots and lots of my friends on Instagram and Facebook never met Ben. They didn't know me before. Yeah. And it's a little way of giving an insight into him, who he was, who we were, but also, damn it, I want people to remember, you know? Yeah. And sometimes that post will make people that I haven't spoken to in years go, Oh, yeah. And I think that's really important. I would be very upset if anybody from your family or his friendship group, your friendship group, tried to stifle that. And I do get, and it is a very, very tricky issue because feelings are heightened when somebody is dead. It is different to separation. for your question. But, we have to allow people to love the person that's died, and love the person that they're in a relationship with now. And that has to be allowed to happen, without one diminishing the other. Yeah. I mean, don't get me wrong, if we laid in bed and, you know, I said to you, Oh, gosh, I miss Ben so much. I mean, you know, this was every single time we were in bed together. That would be weird. No, but that's a different conversation, because you're obviously not ready for a new relationship. But the, um, I can see this from both sides. Being a widow and, and experiencing it, like, myself, I, I still do love Sarah, of course I do. She, she died. I didn't Yeah. We didn't divorce, we didn't split up, we didn't leave. She, she, she died and has been left for you. So, um, and the, the, they're doing the post on socials. Now I didn't really post much on Sarah's anniversary this year. I just put a broken heart and then a bandaged heart with two photos of Holly. Um. Because I didn't read it. I had a big post written, but then, you know what, I couldn't be bothered. Yeah, and that's all right too, isn't it? You don't have to do it. Yeah, but sometimes the, you know, taking the feeling from inside and getting it out in the world, writing it down on paper is not enough. Sometimes you need to push it out into the wider world to get to remember. But then I can also see the flip side, like, um, we, you know, we, we had dinner with some friends who were in a similar situation and the conversation of. Um, you know, the, the, the lost partner and the one who's divorced. How they feel, um, I'm sorry, like less. Because you can't compete. Because they're on a pedestal. Now, I sympathise 100 percent with that. But the cold hard facts are They're not here. They're not here. You can't be jealous of a dead person. If you are, you have to consider the relationship you're in because you cannot ask this person to change their feelings. They can't. It's physically impossible. Now you might be divorced. You may still love your ex wife but decided to move on but you still have a soft spot and you have a really good friendship. This does happen. And, you know, the widowed partner will have to accept that relationship where you might still be friends and going to the restaurants and stuff, but trust that they're with you. Because they chose. And not with them. And if, if you can, I'm rambling quite a lot, but if you can solidify that in yourself of, I want this person to want to be with me. Not to need to be with me, to want to be with me. So for me to be acting jealous, well you won't want to be with me. Yeah, and you're right, it's an exercise in futility, isn't it? There's nothing you can do about it. Another issue is that of other people's expectations of you and how you should behave and what you should post. And many of, many people will have comments, you know, about the fact that they are openly grieving and how that might impact on, you know, the new relationship they've got. And I think that that is a really important issue because We have to be allowed to grieve in the way that we need to. And for some people, it might be pouring your heart out every single day in long, rambling social media posts. But if you don't like it, you can click the unfollow button. Exactly. It doesn't do, you don't need to tell them that what they're doing is too much. You don't need to say, it's making me uncomfortable. It's making my mum uncomfortable, whoever. You just, you know, Unfollow them and mind your own fucking business. I know that sounds harsh But unless they are doing something that is incredibly disrespectful incredibly unkind rude or harmful hurtful then How they decide to process their grief and express it is really none of your business and In this case, I don't believe it was Chris that was upset, it was his children. So, it is, it's the extended family that have a perception of how you should behave. And, quite frankly, I think a lot of us are sick of being muzzled. We want to be able to talk about what happened to us and how hurt we still are. Yeah, and the other thing, for the non widows that aren't listening, when you see these posts, and if they're posting every single day, like, look into their words. Try and find out what, what are they, what do they need, what are they, what are they trying to tell someone. Um, cause it might just be, go round and have a cup of tea, no one's been to see them. You know, they're at month seven and everyone's disappeared. So they start to wail online and they're, you know, it's a, see it as a little siren. And if you want to check him, check him. If you don't, that's also fine, but make sure, if you're in their circle, look out for them. Yeah, and I think there's something to be said about Christmas there as well. You know, don't assume that because somebody is, is, appears happy, whether that's in a relationship or not. Assume that their heart is still broken and maybe just send an extra text, you know, just thinking of you and the kids at Christmas Um, it doesn't have to be a card. I've seen the price of stamps Jesus, but a text is ample, you know I and I don't expect other people to sort of mollycoddle us The rest of our existence. That's an unreasonable expectation. But if you know somebody who's with a particularly if they are freshly widowed at Christmas, um, time companionship and and just a little bit of acknowledgement is really all they need. And the other one if you if you If you do the old, You're coming round here for Christmas dinner. You're not gonna be alone Christmas day. Right, sometimes that can be a bit too much because they're, they're full of grief and they don't know what's gonna happen on Christmas day. I've just tried sending them a message going, Listen, we're gonna set you a table. We've got plenty of food. You want to come? It's there. If you don't, don't worry about it. We'll, we'll send you a box round afterwards. And sometimes that, that loose, it's there if you want it, but we don't mind if you don't. We'll allow them just to pop their heads in. A sort of a low demand invite. And that's, that's another thing, is it? You could say, you know, Either I'll pop in and see you, I'll bring some mince pies, or I'll bring you a plate of dinner. Because some people might not want to leave the house. Exactly, yeah. Or you say there's, you know, I'm always cook far too much. It's no pressure. And actually, particularly if people have got kids, because I had three young kids and I felt very much that nobody wanted me because, um, in terms of social events, because we came as a quite a rowdy tribe and if it makes your day a little uncomfortable, then maybe say, come around for an hour, pop around for an hour in the afternoon, or you pop there. I I'm, I'm not trying to tell people how to live their lives and support people, but I do think offering. The widowed or the bereaved in any, any, any situation. A little lifeline at Christmas is, is a kind thing to do. An an optional one though. Yeah. So a low pressure optional one. Yeah. Yeah. That's it. A low, a low demand invitation. If you are, if you feel like it, there is a space for you. Mm-hmm . And some, they may not take you up on it, but that doesn't mean they aren't incredibly grateful for the offer. Yeah. Yeah, just just the offer alone come out and feel not as alone at christmas And let's be honest a lot of widows are really skint at christmas and that's tough too You know all these ostentatious trees and piles of presents under the tree when you're you're struggling to to find enough to buy the basics that that that can be very um That can just add another pressure on and it's not I won't go off on an entirely different topic But just just you know bear that in mind. Now, there is a far more serious concern at Christmas, John. Okay. If your husband dies, who goes into the loft to get the decorations? Excuse me. Mm-hmm . I mean, I wouldn't know. And I realize that that is a very stereotypical attitude. And of course women are more than capable of going into the attic to get decorations. But let's face it, it was a blue job. Uh, and Corinne Candish, she agrees with me. This is another beautiful accent. Scottish this time. Gorgeous.

Corinne Candish: 34:31

Hi, Rosie. Um, thought I'd send you a wee message regarding your recent post. Um, quite a few things that are really shit for me at Christmas time. So, I'm 19 months on from my loss, so this'll be my second Christmas without Jason. First thing is, there's no one to get the blinking Christmas decorations down from the loft for me. Um, I have trouble, obviously, climbing ladders on my own. Um, and that's really annoying. The other thing is, It's not the Christmas day or the presents or anything like that. It's all the little traditions that we had. So, things like having a day that we just stayed in, watched Christmas movies, watched A Wonderful Life and made Christmas cocktails. Um, we always had a day out in Edinburgh, um, doing the Christmas markets and all the kind of traditional bit. Um, but yeah, it's just, oh yes, and he made the most amazing sausage rolls and he did them with fresh sage and everything and that smell will always remind me of Christmas. Um, I have got the recipe, I do try and recreate them. Um, other thing being is, Hugmanay was the day that we met. So we met Hugmanay in 2000, no, take that back, Hugmanay 1992. We got married in 2001. I hope this is helpful Rosie. Just to clarify, Hugmanay is New Year's Eve here in Scotland.

Rosie Gill-Moss: 36:05

thank you Kain for that. I very much appreciate these messages and um, I hope that you have a lovely hog money. Just before we wrap up, I will just tell you that we are going to be opening the invites again. So anybody that has sent in an application, you will get your invite, your link to book in from January. If you're thinking of coming on, I will tell you that we booked up to March already before these could go out. So you might want to get your applications in, um, I think that's it for admin, I don't think I've got any more, this is our last episode of the year, so, from, I just have one little, one little, because this would be way easier than emailing everybody, um, so the guests you've recorded, but your shows haven't gone out yet, because we've slowed down the cadence of the releases, we were going quite the buffer. Which allows me and Rose to go on and move on to other projects and, and get things done. Um, they are on the way. I will let you know probably the week before they go out. Because we're scheduling them, um, more on interest based rather than recorded time. So, even, um, when you're coming for your record there will be a delay before your episode goes out. Yeah, which is why I couldn't wear my Christmas hat for any of my records this month. Or any sparkles because it really messes with continuity. So, oh, we're going to Jamaica. I realize by reference we're going on holiday. We're going to Jamaica. We are smug bastards. I know but quite frankly we need it So we fly out at the weekend. My parents are house sitting. So nobody worry about us getting robbed and um, We will be back. Yeah Uh, back home to celebrate the new year. And I'll try and keep you guys updated with some pictures and things so you can see what we're up to. Please do the same. I'd love to see what you guys are up to. Um, it, and the messages that you send in. I know I'm a little bit slow replying sometimes, but every single one of them I do appreciate. And I appreciate every single one of you for listening to me for another year. Here's to another one. Here's to 2025. I don't ever dare say here's to a great new year, because I did say that one year and look what happened, but from our broken hearts to yours, thank you for being part of this journey and we will see you in the new year. Lots of love. Bye bye.