​hello everybody and a very warm welcome back to your chatty episode of Widowed AF. You're here with Rosie and With John, who, for those who are watching on YouTube, so, needs a hint in that microphone in the middle of your intro. Oh, do you know, this is what my guests expect because I don't look at them. I'm always looking away, I don't see what goes on. In fact, me, it's like I sit a little bit far away. Well, there you go. If anybody isn't watching it on YouTube, maybe you should. Um, I've got my Christmas decorations up, so I've just noticed I need to take those down. But anyway, let's get back to the matter in hand. Um, good to have you back with us. And as many of you will be aware, we celebrated our third wedding anniversary yesterday. So I just wanted to say thank you for all the lovely messages that I received because, um, they were lovely and it's nice and it made us feel very treasured and loved. And it, it is a scary thing to embark on a relationship when you've been widowed and it's scary for a myriad of reasons. Um, And I think one of the primary reasons is, uh, judgment. Judgment. Yeah. Yeah. And I think a lot of that comes Oh God, I've launched straight. This is not on the list of the itineraries. Sorry. You're getting what you get. Um, it's We always do, don't we? Yeah, yeah, yeah. This is, this is, this is how it rolls. Um, so you, you have a very strong internal judgment, which is very difficult to switch off. Um, I would find myself judging myself and thinking, well, I don't know, I don't know How can you love two people? But, as we've talked about quite a lot on this podcast, because it is a subject that comes up time and time again, you just do. The human heart expands. But, you are met with some degree of external judgment. And that may be that you've met too soon. It may be you've left it too long. Um, it may be they disapprove of your choice of partner. Um, which is, unless you're in harm, risk of harm is kind of no one's business. Um, And it's You've got their property. You do, and we, we I concluded in a little montage I put on Instagram, some of the press coverage that came about from when we got married. Because for those of you who don't know, John proposed to me from the ICU, um, using an iPad. Yes, it was a very romantic recipe. It wasn't, it was actually because, um, you were alive. And, um, the nurses held the iPad and everybody cried and it was all very sweet. The wedding that we had planned was meant to be at the end of 2020 and it was a lovely Christmas planned wedding next door, we live next to a lovely restaurant. Um, you know, I bought the girls lovely little Etsy dresses and I had a Christmas sparkly dress, obviously. And, lockdown. Bitters in the arse. And we'd sort of resigned ourselves to like, okay, we'll just go abroad and get married on a beach with the kids. Perfect. I think we might even have booked it. Yeah. Um, and then I think as the, as Christmas came and went and we sort of felt like, why don't we just do the legal bit here? Why don't we just get it done? Because. There is something important when you have children involved, and although being married doesn't give you parental responsibility, it sort of, for us, gave us this Yeah, yeah, it made us feel like an official family. And we, um, again, I don't know whether everybody who listens knows, but my, um, surname when I married was married to Ben was Moss. You took Sarah's surname when you married. So, very unusually, very modern, and that means that we've both kept their surnames, um, and taken on each other's guilds. Um, so, we, sorry, so this would, so basically we just kind of spoke to a friend of mine actually who is a registrar, and said, what availability have you got, she gave us some dates, we picked one, we'll just drive over, take the kids, just get mad, anyway. Long story, not very short, um, we got a call, uh, or I got a call from this friend and she said to me, with, with her we're going into lockdown again tomorrow and there's no, we don't know how long for, um, We can stay late and marry you this evening, if you can get here within an hour. And I just sort of went, um, let me speak to John, because you've gone out to get food or something. And so I rang you and I was like, we can get married today, now. Do you want to just do it? And you immediately said yes. We got called a babysitter and because we just decided just to go and we called our friends. They jumped in the car and headed off to Tunbridge Wells. I'm running around in my Spanx, you know, being zipped into my dress by you frantically slapping on makeup. I wasn't slapping on the makeup. Myself or Rosie. But I do have a picture of you in a very pretty lace mask. Um, so we, and we got in the car, we're halfway there. We realized we don't have the rings, but do you know what? None of it mattered. None of it mattered. We got there. And there was such a buzz because everybody wanted this to happen and everybody was rooting for us in that room in the registrar wanted to marry us and they'd stayed late and there was this kind of real romantic. Um, I don't know, like cavalier sort of rebel. I don't know. It felt sort of like a fuck you to the traditions of weddings and it felt romantic and it was romantic and my mum and dad are on FaceTime wearing fascinators. And yeah. It was very quick and very basic but we were married and we came home and ordered a curry and a bottle of wine I think, but we then had a party. And then the press got a hold of it. Yes, that was what I was going to say is because it was a pretty bleak time in the British press at that time and um, I happen to have a friend who's a journalist and she said to me would you, would I mind if she ran the story and we said no, no of course not thinking it'd appear in and The next day, the phone's ringing off the hook, I'm on BBC Breakfast. And it was quite a whirlwind. But it was, the general public, is for want of a better terminology, seemed to need, and I come from a journalist background, my parents are journalists, and it's, it's taught, it's triumph over tragedy, is the terminology. And I think people needed it. I think people wanted a happy ending. That word, that term's been brutalised. We needed it. And it was And it was, but then of course, the excitement dies down and it's January and you're in lockdown and that sort of bleakness sets in. And I suppose, after, I mean, we have this, we always say it's a rubbish day to have a wedding anniversary. But we got lots and lots of support back then when we got married. We didn't get anybody saying, Oh, you know, that was a big soon, or, you know, you rush things, you got told you were punching, but you know that anyway. Um, and it just, um, the same, it kind of felt similar yesterday. It felt that people were celebrating this. Act of defiance and love that, because it, it is when you make the choice to commit to somebody again. You know, you, you're putting your life on the line, your heart on the line, you're, you're entrusting your children with somebody and it, and it isn't always easy and marriage isn't. No marriage is easy and when you remarry and you come with the extent of baggage that we came with. You have to be prepared to do some supporting of each other. And sometimes that might be you supporting me, and sometimes that might be me supporting you. But one thing we really noticed when we went out together yesterday was just how much we needed it. And it's been, I think with illness and Christmas holidays, we've I'm not going to say we drifted out, that's a terrible thing, but you That connection and the kind of romantic, romantic side, I guess. You forget, you get into the weeds too far that you just forget. Yeah, and you, it almost ships in the night, don't you? It's who's done the packed lunch for so and so, who's on which school run. So, um, yeah, I think it's something that we've, we've decided that we're going to make much more of a priority this year, because even if it's just walking the dog in the evening, on our own one evening, um, It doesn't have to be, you know, posh, fancy restaurant in London. Oh, I miss summer. Oh, I miss summer. Winter just started. When we were going on the train into London last night, we left, I think we got 4. 30 train up in town and, um, it was dark and it was raining, and we were falling asleep on the train. But we, we made it till, um, we got home after midnight, so I don't like to brag. Anyway, I'm completely in the wrong order of things as we usually do them, but I'm going to now take you back to Monday. So we're just going to go back in time to Lisa Aldridge's episode. Um, Lisa, I'm going to just tell you just a small, I say it's going to be a small story, it should be. Um, when I first joined Way, um, and I think I've mentioned before, I was a little resistant to it. Sorry, um, because I just didn't think I'd, I don't know, I think I was just kind of quite resistant to the term widow and I was struggling with that identity. I mean, you know, that whole lost soul thing, isn't it? And I tentatively joined WAI and Lisa reached out to me because she lives in Kent and she said there's a few of us who are going to meet at Dobby's Garden Centre at Ashford. Would you like to come? And I went and I don't know as I've been so scared. And I had my baby with me, I had Tabby with me in the pram and I stood outside this garden centre and I I was going in. I wasn't going in. I was going in. I wasn't going in because I just didn't know what I was walking into. I had no idea what to expect. I didn't know another widow and they just, there was Lisa and there was, I want to name this other person and her name's going out my head, but there was a few ladies there and they were just really kind to me and. I think it was the first time anybody had been quite so frank with me about Ben and, you know, how did he die and, like, just ask, ask the questions and giving me the opportunity to speak about him. And I think it was at that moment I realized the importance of finding other people that had been through the same or a similar experience. Yeah. So that was a very long winded way of. Mentioning Lisa and who she is, but she, she very bravely came onto the podcast and she talked about the death of her husband and her subsequent marriage to her new partner, her new husband. So it's, again, it was, it was a story, or it was the arc, you know, this awful, awful tragedy. He was killed whilst working on a car, air ambulance was called out, you know, having to tell the children. Again, it's one of the things I underline in an interview, it's that delaying telling the kids as long as possible. But she is another of these beacons of light. She's very invested in weight. She works really hard supporting new members. And again, you've got that rise back up again. You do the work. You fix yourself and a new version of your life exists. Um. I was hoping you were going to speak then. Sorry, I had a complete mental lock in. You just wait, it's because there's just been this stream of consciousness coming from me. Um, I'll carry on then. No, no, no, I think there's this interesting concept of, of, um, waking up to your new life, and you find that more and more often, especially with widows, most of the people who contract it, which I'm going to come back with, um, I've done something that helps people go through the same thing to get the message out, which obviously is one thing, but the message is not out there, it's still an unknown question. Yeah, and actually, as you've said that, it's made me think about the amount of people we've spoken to who have gone on to do some degree of charitable work, whether that be fundraising, whether it be, um, Um, Lulu was talking at the, uh, when she was over, over Christmas about, um, a charity local to her that goes and supports people living in real deprivation and helps them bring their home up to a standard that they deserve. And it might mean going in and putting your rubber gloves on and cleaning somebody else's toilet. But there's something magic in, I don't literally mean in cleaning the toilet, but in, I do, when I go to Hold Your Melody and Go, they've offered me the opportunity to train to work directly with the children, which I would like to do at some point, but at the moment I'm concentrating on my four children. And, um, I kind of like just doing the dog's bodying. I like just mucking in and, yeah, and just The busy work. And I suppose it's not entirely selfless, because the warm glow inside is nice, and I think When you have been helped yourself, when you've been down, you've, uh, most people or some people, certain people will then wish to do the same. And I found solace in a Widowed podcast from America. I found solace in support networks and groups and community. And I talk, we talk about the things we've tried and worked and maybe haven't worked so well. So it's all about this. I suppose it's, um, you become an almost expert by experience, so you share your, you share your expertise in whatever way you, you choose and you make the world a little bit nicer. Yeah. Yeah. That's what we're trying to do, isn't it? Um, I don't know the exact saying. I think I've tracked it on the website. I'm going to get rid of it and send it off. Star Rewards, aren't they? It'll be there. Spark off someone's heart or something. Yeah, and I think very much what we are trying to do here is, um, give people hope. Um, and I'm not sure that's how it started off, I think it's just how it's ended up. Because, people come to us because they want to tell their stories. And so we know the power in doing that. And we know the power in creating this body of work. And it's We talk about legacy all the time with our guests. And I realise, I think, because we're coming up to 100 episodes, that this 100 episodes, we're carrying on by the way, we're not stopping, um, it will live forever. And it is a piece of research. You know, these are in depth conversations with people about grief and as far as I'm aware, this hasn't been done. So, what you are contributing when you come onto this podcast and what you're bringing to the, to the world is, um, is hopefully making it a more tolerable and kinder place to people who are grieving. Um, So yeah, in a very roundabout way, I'm just saying, you know, it's, it's that do all the good when you can, at all the times you can, and the small acts of kindness that add up to the big ones, really. And actually, on another subject, Talking of, um, acts of kindness or ways in which The world is, in some ways, getting kinder. I mean, I don't know, it seems a little bit like people have lost humanity out there sometimes. But we went to this nice restaurant up in town last night, and as we walked in there was a sign, and you actually spotted it, not me. And I, what was it called? Sensory Friendly? Something like that, yeah. Sensory Inclusive. Yeah, and they had a picture of somebody with ear defenders on, and it just said, We aim to be as inclusive as possible. Um, you require a quieter table, but I won't repeat the entire sign. And I thought, well, that's interesting. And we checked in and went to the table. And we were seated in, um, I think it's banquet seating, you know, and you're in a row. I know this makes me sound like I'm being really fussy, but it makes me feel very trapped. And I have had a couple of panic attacks in restaurant and every time it's been in that environment. So I just kind of discreetly said to the, um, uh, maitre d that sounds posh, Uh, is there any possibility of a smaller ta of a, uh, uh, individual table? And do you know what? They did. No, and they, I think. I mean, I said, you know, I, uh, I'm autistic and every time I say it, I'm like, Oh, cause I'm so not used to saying that word. And I'm also so nervous of people's reaction to it because you know, particularly people's picture of what autism looks like. I mean, this is the subject for another podcast, but I don't present as you may expect. So I'm always waiting for somebody to do, well, I kept the airport. You know, this guy chasing me down, going, What's wrong with you? What are you suffering from? And so this was a completely different experience. And I suppose that gave me a little bit of hope that in some places that the world is getting a little kinder. We can but hope, hey? Yeah, we can but hope. Um, one thing I didn't mention was she talks about her daughters in the podcast, with their permission, because they're both young adults now. And afterwards I said to her, um, did she think Roisin, who I think is the elder one, but I apologise if not, um, would like to come and talk. About her experience of losing her father, because it happened quite, I think she was the same age as Monty was when, when Ben died, and she's now 21, I think. So, I'm really interested in that voyage, you know, how, how we speak to the children. We're, we're winging it, right? Especially in the early days, we're winging it, we're relying heavily on Google. Um. And actually, when I have spoken, I've spoken to my friend who lost her dad young. And I'm, again, I have said this before and I apologise if I am repeating myself but, and she said that the pressure to commemorate them on special days, she really struggled with. And I've taken that on board. And so I think the wisdom that comes from children who are now adults who have lost a parent, I think is a really uh, I'm hoping that it's going to be a beacon of hope. I've got a little six parter coming out in the new year at some point, I'm just finessing. So what I'm hoping to give you guys, especially those of you who are in the eye of the storm and you're looking at your babies and thinking the fuck am I going to do this? I would like to be able to show you that it doesn't mean the end. Yeah. And that they can go on to have a happy, settled, calm life. Um, we are seeing the product of the work we've put in with our children now. They are, they are really good kids and they seem relatively unharmed. They're not unscathed, but unharmed. So I want to find out from people who've experienced it themselves, what. Worked for them and who knows maybe we can create like a, well we are on the website We're creating these resources for you. So you'll be able to come and like see real examples of what you know, what these Stumbling over my words, I do apologize. I suppose it all comes down to this idea of hope and a silver lining and that It doesn't mean The end of all that, you know, it just means it's going to change and it's going to change significantly and some things may even change for the better. That doesn't mean I'm advocating killing your spouse, but just in case, um, sometimes the way you have to do to cope with who you've lost. Yeah, yeah. As I walked back from school this morning, I was chatting to a friend and I said, it's really weird. The theory seems to be going. I'm not so scared of, of, of doing this and of the stuff I've got planned for this year. And there's a sort of confidence coming back to me that's been missing from me for a long time. Um, and that's, that's really nice. And, um, long may it continue. There's been no staring at a wall for a while, has there? No. I've just seen somebody walk down our garden. Do you think we should investigate that? Was it someone else's cat? No, that was a human. Anyway, on that note, um, I will love you and leave you, but I'm going to give you a little teaser because my dad is coming up today. And I have him tentatively booked in to record with me. My dad is a very, very interesting man. Um, he was a, um, a reporter. He reported, um, out in wars. He covered Diana's funeral. He covered the falling of the ball at Berlin Wall. He's really interesting. And I'm going to get, try and get his life story down. But I think what we're going to try and do is talk a bit about what it's like watching your child grieve. Um, we're going to We might both cry and it might not work, but We're going to see. So if I manage to do that, I will try and get that out for you guys at some point, but um, yeah, it's That'll be a different one. So we're trying different things. We're gonna see what works. Give us feedback. Don't say anything mean and We'll be back on Monday Have a great weekend guys. Lots of love