Rosie Gill-Moss: 0:02

Hello and a very warm welcome back to your friendly widowed podcast. You're here with me, that's Rosie Gill-Moss, and joining me I have the alive husband.

Jonathan Gill-Moss: 0:11

Jonathan Gill-Moss with his dulcet northern tones. That

Rosie Gill-Moss: 0:14

was so close to being smooth until I nearly interrupted you halfway through. That's alright. Slick. Slick, man. So, yes, the dynamic duo are back in our seats again, and, I wanted, before we went any further, actually, just to thank, some of the listeners who reached out, because we did put out quite a, a raw episode, and gave a little bit of an insight into our own personal lives, and the response was overwhelmingly kind and supportive, and so many people, and I'm thinking Dan Frost, so, like, men reaching out to support you, and there was, of course, The message, claiming that you are now the favoured voice of the podcast. No,

Jonathan Gill-Moss: 0:50

no, no, no, no, no. It was rapidly

Rosie Gill-Moss: 0:52

catching up. Well, slow down. Slow down. I can but try. I've got, well, this is, this is my, this is, my purpose is the speaking. You can't take that, you do the tech.

Jonathan Gill-Moss: 1:01

Cool by me.

Rosie Gill-Moss: 1:05

Sorry, I was just having a drink of water because I forgot we were recording, because our laptop's on open. Um, so yes, thank you. And, uh, we've had, we've had half terms since I think we last put anything out. Yeah. And we have, just the kids went back to school today. So, yeah, I think a lot of you were just embarking on your half terms if you've got school aged children, so Godspeed. Um, I think this one is the bleakest. February half term. There's just nothing to do. There's nothing to do. We had one lovely sunny day, and that happened to be the day we went down to Suffolk. So we did have a nice day on the beach, and I saved a starfish, just throwing that out there. Um, I say on the beach, we walked along it. There was no seaside activities, it was bloody freezing. But yeah, it's a really tricky one because if you have sort of kids that are still in that puppy age where they do need running around, it's one thing taking them out at Easter when it hopefully is kind of decent weather, but to go out, uh, well actually Tabby and I got soaked to the underpants with mud. We went to Jimmy's farm in Suffolk. She excitedly rang towards the animals and slipped and sort of sat there completely in shock, covered in mud. I tried to be a hero and go and get her, and I could just feel the slow motion of the fall. And I thought to myself, and this is an indication of what happens when you get past 40, Don't try and save yourself, you'll only do more harm than good.

Jonathan Gill-Moss: 2:32

This could be the fall. I keep talking about my fall,

Rosie Gill-Moss: 2:34

don't I? Accept that you're going to be at one with the mud. And so I was, and we walked around the whole of the farm coated in mud. I was not my best self, if I'm honest. And, um, I then had to strip down at the car park. But there you go, that's, that's a Mildly entertaining anecdote that has nothing to do with this podcast. Welcome to Halftime. Yeah, welcome to Halftime. Welcome to Halftime. So this is going to be episode 96, which I think is quite something, uh, that we have managed to show up and sit down in front of the microphones 96 times. In fact, it's longer because we have some in the can ready to go out. Well, you

Jonathan Gill-Moss: 3:09

have showed up 96 times, I'm probably halfway.

Rosie Gill-Moss: 3:12

Well, I think that sometimes I have to be encouraged. And to record and I definitely couldn't have done it without you. And I also couldn't have done it without the reminders of what we're doing because I think it's quite easy to forget, but we do the recordings and they go out and we don't really have any idea who's listening. Um, I prefer to stay away from the figures because it'll stress me out. And when we first launched, obviously all your friends listen, don't they? And you're getting constant feedback, but we, within our sort of personal circles. We don't get so much. But what I am getting more of is messages from people who have found us.

Jonathan Gill-Moss: 3:54

Or people are sending the podcast to. Yeah. To

Rosie Gill-Moss: 3:57

them saying this is good. Yeah, and this is it. And it's, it's really, I suppose it's kind of, it makes you feel good. It does. To know that through something really, really shit happening. You're able to use your experience that you really didn't want to get, um, to help somebody who might be floundering in those first, you know, those first horrible, not chicken and wine, uh, Well, the initial shock. Yeah, sorry, I lost the ability to speak then. Yeah, when

Jonathan Gill-Moss: 4:27

the, you know, when the world's been pulled away from you, like, you know, we said if we'd have found, like, a resource like this, just tapped into the stories that are similar to yours to start with. But then as you go through the rest of the strives, you see the group, the grouping and the way and the

Rosie Gill-Moss: 4:42

similarities. And the arc, John, I just really wanted to say that. The arc, yes. The arc, yeah, the arc, because everybody that comes on here has gone through a process and they have made a choice. And I think, I may have said this before, so forgive me if I'm repeating myself, it's hard to be completely original, 96%. Um, but I really thought that we would be appealing to the people who were perhaps 4 or 5 years plus into the business. Into their grief and whilst they have obviously listened. Um, We've also found that a lot of people very early on have have come to it because it does offer some hope And really you just need a little glimmer of hope in those early days. I think yeah,

Jonathan Gill-Moss: 5:20

most definitely And we've we've learned a lot as well from listening to all your stories. I certainly have edited them so much You've never seen a grown man crying whilst trying to edit a video. Um, and, yes, Dan yours did stick quite heavily in me. So, uh, yeah, that was a, that was a I don't want to say good episode because it's about a rough part of your life. But, you know, when you An important

Rosie Gill-Moss: 5:45

episode.

Jonathan Gill-Moss: 5:45

Yeah, when you express your emotions and how you're feeling and what it feels like to be in that

Rosie Gill-Moss: 5:50

area. Yeah, and also that you're, I'm thinking, you know, for you as a man You don't know anybody else, personally, whose wife has died from cancer. Not in our inner circle. Um, it does seem that men die quicker. Uh, and also, I think perhaps we're better at creating networks. Women, I mean. Um. Oh, man, I'm rubbish at that. So for you to then hear an episode that is, has so many parallels to your experience, it must make you feel less alone. So, thank you to everybody who is recommending us and for everybody that's, that is still listening to us. 96, 96. 96 episodes in. Which leads me seamlessly to the fact that we are approaching 100 episodes. We are. Four episodes time.

Jonathan Gill-Moss: 6:39

That's not the reason we've slowed down the releases by the way, that's just circumstances.

Rosie Gill-Moss: 6:42

Yeah, and, and, but we are planning to take the pressure off ourselves a little and perhaps put out one every other week, um, after we've done the hundred episodes because it is a, um, it is challenging actually to live. With, walk somebody through their grief, and I think I wouldn't be human if it didn't take some degree of toll on, on me emotionally. And actually I would like to do some other things as well alongside it. I'll always be a widow and I will always care so deeply about the network I've created and I'm no, no plans to stop doing this. No. I will stop when you guys stop listening or sharing your stories. It, it goes on as long as you want me to. But, and it's really difficult to broach this subject, actually. But we have made a choice that we've not put advertising on it. And at the time we, we, hand on heart, had no idea how big it would be. So We stand by that commitment. We're not going to put adverts on people's stories. Um, however, we are going to look into putting some on these episodes, the chatty episodes. Because I like to think of the last year as kind of an apprenticeship and learning a new skill. And it's been a, an honour, a pleasure, a huge privilege to be able to do this. But I just didn't want you guys to suddenly tune in and find that we've stuck advertising on and for it to be a bit of a jolt to you. I wanted to explain why. Um, but yeah, even the hosting platforms, the platforms we use to distribute, they all cost money. Yeah. And There does come a point where we have to think, okay, at some point we've got, it's becoming, I don't want to call it a job because like I say, it's, he's a honour, but it's, nobody would expect us to work for free. I don't think. Especially

Jonathan Gill-Moss: 8:32

as the, as the workload increases. Yes.

Rosie Gill-Moss: 8:34

And it has increased. And we, I, to be honest, if you told me I was still going to be doing this a year's time back last January, I would have. I've been very, very surprised, but I love it. I love meeting, in inverted commas, all of you. And I'm, I, yeah, it's been, it's been wonderful. I feel like I'm doing my goodbye

Jonathan Gill-Moss: 8:53

speech. We should maybe save this for episode 100, maybe.

Rosie Gill-Moss: 8:58

Yeah, should I shut up? I'm joking, I'm I shut up? Um, well, anyway, so what I'm saying is, as we, um, Approach the, the end of our, of our centennial episodes. We're going to, um, we're going to kind of celebrate what, what we have achieved here. And by we, I mean, everybody has been on the podcast, not just John and I. So, um, prepare for some big emotions probably coming from me, because I think the magnitude of what we've done here is dawning on me that, you know, to consistently put out a hundred episodes talking about, um, you know, sharing these stories that haven't really got a platform. I think. I'm going, I'm not very good at giving myself, uh, credit, but actually I'm proud of myself for doing it because I'm, I've always struggled with sticking at things and, you know, I've managed to get plenty of good jobs, but have not managed to retain many. And so this, this kind of seed that we've nurtured, um, into something really quite special. So, anyway, I've, I realise that this probably would be better contained in the, the hundredth episode, but, um, what can you do? The brain Wants to tell you what the brain wants to tell you and the mouth obeys.

Jonathan Gill-Moss: 10:07

Exactly, and that's the beauty of this podcast is, um, you get what you're given.

Rosie Gill-Moss: 10:11

And I think the, uh, subheading for my personal podcast is going to be the contents of a scattered mind, which is a little bit of plagiarism from Gay Blah blah blah. Um, which is a book about ADHD for anybody that's not as much of a nerd on these things as me. Right, so instead of galloping four weeks ahead, I'm going to drag you guys back into the present and just talk a little bit about Leah's episode which went out last Monday. So it's Analia, but I kind of know her as Leah because, uh, as we discussed in the episode, we were members, and still are members, of the Hot Young Widows Club. It's not called that anymore, it's the group formerly Attractive Middle Aged Widows now, yeah. We moved with the times. And As regular listeners will know, we all joined the group around 2018, and the group was subsequently closed. So it's quite a small community of people, and we've all been on a similar trajectory, so we're all hitting six years around this year. And it's meant that I know people on a very superficial level, but I have a real fondness and affection for every Um, this group because you've watched them, you know, climb out, you've watched them get knocked back down again. So every time I get to speak to one of the members of this group, it does feel a little bit special, actually, and this episode was no exception. Um, now there was a couple of points that I thought would be quite interesting to talk about today. Um, and for you John, I feel like I'm going to pack some of you. She Her and Steve were childhood sweethearts. Yeah. And it made me think about you and Sarah. Because you guys were really young when you met, weren't you? We were quite

Jonathan Gill-Moss: 11:57

close. I was 21, she was 17. Do not judge me. I met her in a nightclub. She said she was 18. I

Rosie Gill-Moss: 12:03

think that, I think that's okay. When I was 17, my boyfriend was 28. He had told me he was 23, and only confessed when we flew out to my parents, who was living in Russia at the time, and had to do, um, obviously had to give his date of birth, and that's how my parents found out that he was not Twenty three. Twenty three. That was Darren, by the way, if anybody knows me that well. Um, and I guess I wanted to ask you a little bit about, because, about the idea of growing up with somebody and then losing them before their time, because you've been part of everything that they've gone through. Because seventeen through to thirty seven, gosh, that's a long time to be with someone,

Jonathan Gill-Moss: 12:47

right? Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah, I mean, I, uh, it was, uh, twenty years, one month, and one day. It's the same. The times and dates are burnt into your mind Um, and, you know, as I was talking about in my counselling session, we always used to do these straight after my

Rosie Gill-Moss: 13:06

counselling. Oh, we've both been counselling today. A couple of the councils

Jonathan Gill-Moss: 13:10

together. We were talking about, you know, that I I was with Sarah all the way, she went off to university. Um, and I always say, like, I had a full time salary job with the university crowd. I used to drive to Liverpool every weekend on the M62 and then off the M62 and back on the M62. For the ones who know, you know. I'm just looking really blankly at you. Yeah, um, maybe I'll drive you in one day. It's weird because you stay on the M62 and never come off it. That is not

Rosie Gill-Moss: 13:39

an offer. Like, I might take you to the M62. Jesus, you took me to Italy on our first train.

Jonathan Gill-Moss: 13:45

Yeah, how the mighty have fallen, eh? Um, and then I, you know, uh, uh, leaving university. And as she left university and came back from Liverpool to sunny Darfield, which nothing happens much in Darfield, she then going to sell in houses. Um, I was then working for watch finder. Um, they would get busy. I was from my bedroom and I'm like, so I moved to Maidstone. And we looked, we came down, um, Stu put us up in the Hilton, which was fancy. It's not even a Hilton anymore, but it was fancy. We went out, got absolutely. So drunk, had a great night. Woke up the next morning, drove around Kings Hill. Went, this is a bit Stretford Wives. And then found a flat. Put an offer on the flat that day. Wow! Went up, back up north, put the house up for sale. Completed on the flat and sold the house. Completed on the same day and then moved down to Maidstone. Um, and I remember her dad like, Yeah, you two are crazy.

Rosie Gill-Moss: 14:41

I actually didn't know that. Did you? No, so I get to learn things on the podcast about you too. Um. I like that, that you just made a real spare of the moment decision.

Jonathan Gill-Moss: 14:53

There was nothing happening up north. Um, and, you know, sometimes you've got to move to, to do it. And, you know, what's funny was interesting, it was, it was very early days. Um, and they, I think they just moved from like a tiny office into what became the H Q. For, well, as long as I was there, they, they got rid of it as I, um,

Rosie Gill-Moss: 15:12

quit. I've just got to say though, you do make buying and selling properties sound incredibly easy.

Jonathan Gill-Moss: 15:18

It's not. As you've seen. Oh God, don't,

Rosie Gill-Moss: 15:22

don't. We've, we've, oh. Yes. There's a re Sorry,

Jonathan Gill-Moss: 15:27

I have a really horrible cough. Yeah. So I apologise for

Rosie Gill-Moss: 15:30

the coughing. I'm just recoiling in horror across the other side of the table. Also, there's a slight, um, Is irony the right word? I don't want to be doing an Alanis Morissette here, but you looked at a house in Kings Hill, which is five minutes from where we live. Yes. That's nuts, isn't it? Mm.

Jonathan Gill-Moss: 15:43

Yeah. Um, yeah, and the weird thing is that the pub that is next door to us, The Swan, that's where we had all the company meetings. Towards the, the, the end of it you know, you know, the Richemont lot would fly in and we'd take them there. Right, so

Rosie Gill-Moss: 15:58

it's, there's a lot of business. Business. There's a lot of business stuff in there. Lots of business, lots of clipboards and gilets.

Jonathan Gill-Moss: 16:05

Um, but what I was actually talking to with my counsellor was about Sarah's dad. Mm. Because he, not very quickly, but over the space of three or four years, probably when she went through university, um, he saw a bit. Came my surrogate dad, uh, and we'd do the thing, we'd go out for, uh, beers. And we wouldn't just go out for beers, we'd go out for beers. And I have stories, but they're not

Rosie Gill-Moss: 16:30

for public. I know, one of the stories, it's gross.

Jonathan Gill-Moss: 16:33

Um, and then, you know, we, because we struggled so hard to try and have a baby, then we eventually got Holly, but four weeks before Holly was born. Um, he died from the same thing that killed Sarah. Hmm. Um, and I remember, I now recognize what I felt after that, which was grief. But I didn't recognize, I just felt everything was a bit lonely and a bit empty. And I could never really understand what it was, but now I understand what it

Rosie Gill-Moss: 16:58

was. Yeah, because you presumably would have been, um, your primary focus would have been supporting Sarah through losing her dad. Yeah. And the fact that there was a new baby imminent. And We, actually, it's something that does come up and it's not feeling that you are entitled to feel the grief. Yes. And actually, oh God, look at that. I wasn't even planning to talk about this. It's just, it's coming to me on the spot. But, you hear this sometimes, oh I, I'm not, it's like you don't feel entitled to grieve. Well, sometimes, shit just really hurts, right? Yeah. And it doesn't, I, so somebody I knew died, from back, back home died, not that long ago. And, I, I keep saying I see, thinking I see her at places and stuff and we weren't close anymore. But you were close. And you can't explain why, why grief will hit you in the way it does. Um, and I actually, I think this idea of, uh, hierarchical grief is really wrong. Because, you know, some siblings will feel the grief far more strongly than a spouse. Some friends will feel it far more strongly than a parent. You know, it, it depends on what your I'm saying family in, in the, in the loosest of terms because for a lot of people, their friends or their in-laws or their stepparents, or who, they, they are actually the, the center of their family. Mm-Hmm.

Jonathan Gill-Moss: 18:20

But the difference with widowed grief. Mm-Hmm. the grief element is the same. But all your plans have gone as well. Oh yeah. And that, that, that particular element of it, when you hook it into the grief, is what smashes us

Rosie Gill-Moss: 18:33

to bits. Absolutely, and I spoke to a really nice young woman, um, oh gosh, I think it was only this week, maybe Friday, I can't remember, that they all blur a bit when half term's on, and shit, they didn't have children, and I was talking to her about, you know, the kind of idea, and I'm guilty of this, where I, you know, if somebody didn't have children, you sort of assume that their loss was not as I feel very, uh, I don't like saying that, but having now spoken to a lot of people who don't have children and lost their person, I now realise that actually that's quite a lonely place to land. Yeah, it is, because, and you haven't got the immediate destruction that our children because they don't give you any. You haven't got a chance to wallow. And

Jonathan Gill-Moss: 19:16

also, um, how did you find your

Rosie Gill-Moss: 19:18

reason? Yeah, totally, and I, I, I've really sort of, yeah, shifted how I feel, think about that. Um, and you're right, when it, when it's the loss of a spouse or a, your life partner that you love, it, yes, other people will be grieving, but for you, it is, it's the loss of everything. It's not just the, just, I use that term loosely, the person, it's all the Subsequent losses, and we talk a lot about the share keeper of the memories. Yeah. And how, you know, you sometimes want to go, Oh, do you remember? And they're not there. You can't. So just to go back again into, um, Analia's episode, She lost her husband suddenly. Um, he died in the house. She heard a very sudden thump, and, and he was, he was dead. And she recalled with this kind of crystalline recall, Huh. I used the same word twice. Um, the timeline, the date, and the hours, and it was between 12 and 2 that day. I can remember her saying that. And it's like, burnt into her. Um, and again, see, that doesn't always happen, does it? No. I can remember, I know the date. I know the approximate time. I could check the police report and get the correct time. Yeah.

Jonathan Gill-Moss: 20:32

I had the time tattooed on my arm.

Rosie Gill-Moss: 20:33

Yeah. Um. And it's Some people remember every second of that time, and other people it's a complete blur. I'm a mix. I can remember the police knocking at the door, but after that it gets a bit hazy. Um, and the order of things and how long it took people to get to me and stuff. Um, but I think shock does terrible things to your brain and to your memory, which I'm not entirely sure.

Jonathan Gill-Moss: 21:03

Short term memories haven't recovered. But the thing is, you got the knock at the door and everything changed, like, in a heartbeat. Whereas, I got the call in the morning. We knew it was coming because we'd been told two weeks before. We didn't know when, but I got the call in the morning and then had to sit and, sit and wait for someone

Rosie Gill-Moss: 21:21

to pass. And would you say that So, you can't ask the question, because I was sort of going to say, Do you feel that you It's less of a shock because you know it's happening and you've almost, this anticipatory grief has already begun. But I guess it's not a question you can really answer unless you've lost two spouses, one suddenly and one slowly.

Jonathan Gill-Moss: 21:44

And one, one to the shock. No, I, uh, I, if I'm honest, wouldn't want the shock that you've had. Because, even, even though I was expect, even though we were expecting and waiting for it. Like, when it happened, it still shocked me anyway. Yeah. But to have that, and open the door, and then suddenly that's it, your life changed. Forever. And there's nothing you can do about it. Um, as opposed to sitting, knowing your life's gonna change, at some point, probably this weekend. Yeah. And there's nothing you can do about it, but I think the, the punch in the gut, you have no time to prepare. And that will cause a trauma, quite

Rosie Gill-Moss: 22:23

heavy. I think you're right, and, and, I'm, as I'm listening to you say this, I'm thinking about, you know, um, there's, we always, But I didn't have to watch Ben suffer. You know, I didn't watch this big, strong man deteriorate. Um, but I think you're right. And I think, again, the, the impact of just your life changing on a tuppence. Ooh, that's an old fashioned expression. On a, on a I don't know, in a second, in literally a second, the second or the five seconds it takes for them to ask you if you're the wife of or the husband of, you know that your life has ceased to exist as you know it. And I think that does leave a lasting impact and it's really difficult when you're trying to survive all the additional stuff that goes with the sudden loss or any loss to, to kind of remember. That you suffered this enormous jolt in your reality. It just shifted So one of the treatments to help you get to this crux of this is um I don't know what it's, electronic ID, EDMR, I can never remember if it's EMDR or EDMR. And Lulu, my best friend and former co host of the pod, she has been through this process. And has been, you know, suggesting in fairly strong terms that I would benefit from it for quite some time. And I've I've not been certain, um, that I was quite strong enough because it can be, you're going to revisit trauma, but I have decided I'm going to do it. and I have a, or at least I'm going to explore it. And I've got a face-to-face consultation with a therapist. Uh, Thursday. Thursday. Um, and I think what I'm going to do is I'm gonna bring you guys along with me, uh, not literally, because that will be really weird. Uh, and I'm not gonna film it or anything like that. I, but what I am going to do is I'm going to, if I feel able to, I'm gonna talk to you about what went on. Mm-Hmm. Um, how, how I'm, I didn't plan to do this, actually, I'm just dropping this on you in the middle of the it's episodes. Um. And just kind of talk you through Yeah. What, what, what happens, what it feels like, what, how it feels like afterwards. Um, what it costs it all. I'm gonna give you as much as I can because I feel quite apprehensive about it, and I've been talking to Lula, but she did it several, well, she did it about seven years ago when her husband died. So, yeah. I, I'm, I think I'm gonna, we're gonna do this kind of together, as it were, and I'll let you. You listeners, um, know how I find it because yeah, the fear of the unknown is exactly that it's a fear and This is my year of conquering fears. So I'm gonna Put my camouflage and my war paint on and go meet this therapist.

Jonathan Gill-Moss: 25:12

I Think when you get the first one done you'll be

Rosie Gill-Moss: 25:15

Yeah, and I think I'll know fairly instantly if it's something I want to do I'm going in I'm hoping that, yeah, with the anticipation that we're going to start the process. But I'm also prepared to not start the process if she feels it will be detrimental. Yeah. Because you have to be quite gentle with your fragile, broken heart. Don't you? Yeah. Yeah.

Jonathan Gill-Moss: 25:37

You do. You do.

Rosie Gill-Moss: 25:39

I have only one more thing to tell you. And that is I have had the proof through for the Woodstock tickets. And they are Beautiful. Um, we've got a couple of tweaks to make, we've got John has got, to set up the ticketing website and as soon as that's done, which we're hoping to do by the end of this month, Woodstock tickets will be available. And for those of you who have missed it on Instagram, I am modeling our first little piece of merchandise. It's a very sexy sun visor. You'll have to ask John why that was the first piece of merchandise you won.

Jonathan Gill-Moss: 26:16

No, that was just the first one that came through. We have hoodies, we have, um, short hoodies, we have notebooks, we have

Rosie Gill-Moss: 26:24

And we've got loads of different price ranges as well, because we're aware that for many of you out there in the current economic climate anyway, but for a lot of widowed people finances are difficult. So what we're not trying to do is flog you sort of 70 quid t shirts. We're going to try and keep, um, keep the costs as low as we possibly can. But, you know, I refer you to

Jonathan Gill-Moss: 26:45

Look, I'll be honest, I'll be honest. Everything that's going to come out first is print on demand. Once we see what you guys like and buy, then we'll hold stock, we can bring the prices down. Um, but it, it, we don't want to be stuck with a load of hoodies that no one wants. So we'll try many different designs, and then when we find the ones that sell, we'll, we'll get them

Rosie Gill-Moss: 27:03

made and we are going to need a couple of you to volunteer yourselves to be models. If we have a massive influx, we'll, we'll draw people at random. But, um, and I'm not, I'm talking, you know, if you've got a body. You can wear our clothes, right? We're not, um, we're not looking for Kate Moss here. Although, if anybody, if she's listening.

Jonathan Gill-Moss: 27:26

I mean, we never know. Is anyone famous listening?

Rosie Gill-Moss: 27:30

Oh my god, that was such a witch's castle. Anyway, I will leave you on that note. Um, keep listening, please. Keep spreading the word. And we'll be back with you, um, we'll put out an episode on Monday, which will be episode 97. Take care, everybody. Bye bye.